Sal Khan and Barbara Oakley

A Khanversation Between Sal Khan and Barbara Oakley

Two of my favourite online teachers met on Friday 16 November to discuss learning. Sal Khan hosted Barbara Oakley at the Khan Academy headquarters. Sal is the founder of Khan Academy, whose mission is to provide a free, world class education to anyone, anywhere. Barbara is the creator of the world’s most popular online course, Learning How to Learn.

Along with about 1000 others from around the world, I watched the live stream on YouTube. If you missed it, you can watch it here. The conversation (Khanversation) starts a little after the five minute mark. Within 24 hours, the video had been watched more than 5500 times.

As I watched, I discovered something.

With learning, it can sometimes take several repeats before a particular point or concept sinks in. I know I have heard Barbara say this before, but I realized its full significance today.

It was about the Pomodoro. I learned how to use the Pomodoro when I took the Learning How to Learn MOOC in 2014. I have used the Pomodoro to help get started on projects, from studying courses to writing my blog posts. Even, occasionally, for exercise or housework. Or at least, a mental threat of having to set a Pomodoro to start on the housework has sometimes made me get stuck into it.

What is a Pomodoro?

Invented by Francesco Cirillo, it is a simple kitchen timer set for 25 minutes. If you don’t have a kitchen timer, there are plenty of apps for electronic Pomodoros. Many also feature in-built 5 minute break periods. You eliminate any distractions, set the Pomodoro, and focus fully on the task at hand. Thus, you can do some useful study in just half an hour. If you have a few hours, fit in some more Pomodoros. Most people need a longer break after around two hours.

Sal asked Barbara if there was any particular significance to the recommended Pomodoro time being 25 minutes.

Barbara responded that yes, indeed the 25 minute time is no accident. When we think of a distasteful task, it actually triggers the pain centre in the brain’s insular cortex. After we start on the task, the painful feeling goes away after about 20 minutes. So, sticking to the task for 25 minutes gets us past the pain and we often find we are starting to enjoy the process.

This was my “aha” moment. I was fascinated to hear the justification for a 25 minute Pomodoro and why it is important to push through to the 25 minutes if you are struggling.

I was also relieved when Barbara mentioned that if you are in the “flow” when the timer rings, it’s quite okay to continue working. Sometimes it is more disruptive to stop then start again in five minutes. According to Barbara, the important thing is to reward yourself when you finish. Give your brain a break. Do something completely different. Then, after your short break, get back into the task at hand.

Some Other Topics

If you are completely stuck on a problem, take a break before you get back into it.

Neural connections in the brain strengthen during sleep, so make sure you have sufficient sleep each night.

Regular learning over several days is far better than a last-minute cramming marathon.

The default or diffuse mode of learning can help your brain make connections between seemingly unrelated subjects and boost creativity.

You can train your brain to learn things that you thought you had no aptitude for. As a schoolgirl, Barbara hated mathematics and science. She thought she would never understand them. After realizing in her late 20s that these subjects were crucial for new job opportunities, she studied hard and eventually became a professor of engineering. She is a great advocate of broadening your passions, not simply following them.

Audience Questions

The session ended with several questions from the audience, including how to persevere when you need to study something you dislike. Barbara’s solution? Tell yourself you are going to do a Pomodoro, rather than anticipating the hated subject. You may even discover that you start to enjoy the subject as you begin to master it.

The discussion covered the importance of continuing to learn throughout life and mentioned that Khan Academy videos can be watched by anyone who wants to improve their knowledge of many different subjects. They are even used by specialists who need to re-connect with the basics in their field of expertise.

Deliberate practice works best when you are working slightly outside your comfort zone. For example, practice a music piece that’s a bit difficult.

If, like Barbara, you have a poor working memory, it may mean that you end up becoming a more flexible or more creative thinker. You have spent your life living with a brain that forgets things easily.

The final question of the video dealt with why we seem to remember some things more easily than others. Barbara thinks that this may be to do with evolutionarily primary and secondary learning. Some things are crucial for survival and living in the community, such as language skills. More evolutionarily recent skills such as reading, writing and math may come with more difficulty.

A Final Thought

I learned something new from this video, even though I have heard and read much of the subject before.

By Pat Bowden, published November 20, 2018.

2 thoughts on “A Khanversation Between Sal Khan and Barbara Oakley

    1. patbowden Post author

      Hello Mr. Lawal Hassan,

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